The Creation Completed

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The Creation Completed

Noey
Introduction.

Evolutionists and assorted "Old Earth" advocates like to point out that the Bible is not a science book. It is not about biology, chemistry, physics or genetics. I think we can agree on this. So, the question is, "What is the Bible about?" I suggest it is about God and man and their relationship. Consider how the plain language of Genesis 1 impacts the relationship between God and humans. If God truly spoke the universe into existence, and the major sections of the project were each completed in twenty-four hours, what were God's options? Could God say "undo," "redo," or "reset?" The answer is, "of course," and that speaks volumes about God's deliberate decision to stick with His erring creation. What a God of love! Let's jump back into our study of the Creation week!

http://www.ssnet.org/lessons/13a/less03.html
Noey
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Re: The Creation Completed

Noey
I know for a lot of our church members, this quarters topic, especially the last few weeks, is tough, it contains "too much science" with too many question we can't answer.
The thing is, we as Adventist Christians believe in a literal 6 day creation, so this quarters study is very important for us to understand. Even among Christians, the theory of evolution is becoming the normal way of looking at things and demoting the Genesis account to mere symbols rather than literal so let's discuss these "troublesome" views and discover what the Bible really says about it all.
Noey
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Re: The Creation Completed

Noey
I don't know if any of you had a chance to look at the BBC's The Big Question this morning, the question was Is it time for all religions to accept evolution as fact?
The debate covered a broad spectrum of views but what was noticeable was the majority (including Christians & Muslims) taking for granted that evolution is fact, at least to a certain degree, and that we need to accept that is how it is.

comments like the following was quite common:

Sophie Isabelle Davis In regards to the current episode, "should all religions accept evolution", to put it simply, I think so. Don't get me wrong, everyone has the right to their own opinion, and I don't feel it's ever right to try and force Christians or anyone of any other religion to stop believing in their god; however, as an atheist, I feel that all the problems and despair caused by people taking religion out of context is ridiculous. You can never prove gods creation, but evolution has been successfully proven, and to be honest, I get just a little annoyed when people talk of humans being so special, and how we were made to rule over all the soulless animals. If you truly believe that, then noone really has any right to stop you, but at the end of the day, humans ARE animals, there's simply too much evidence for it to be otherwise, so people who still deny it need to wake up and smell the roses.

Richard Evans I like your comment clement! I don't think the theory of evoloution suggests there is no god, it just doesn't need god in the equation to explain why/how we are here and the facts science has uncovered don't match with some reigious ideas to explain the same thing! I feel religion is a great tool used by the majority of religious people as a moral compass and a way to change their lives for the better when the find themselves lost and alone! There will always be peopl that read the context differently not necessarily on purpose but just because of lack of education or because they are being told differently by other people, the show is about should religious people just accept evoloution, the answer really is yes as it is a fact, that does not mean the should cease to believe in god, the problem with religion is that it is based on faith and all the years ago when there was very little scientific proof of anything people would belive anything as it was all virtually word of mouth (chinese whispers), it wasn't that long ago we thought the world was flat, we have learn't so much about the world we live in that we can prove, religions cannot deny what ther own eyes see forever, it just means that the need to adapt they're religions and accept that we now know more than when these scriptures were written!

If you want to view the program click on the link below

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01q0jrh#programme-broadcasts
Noey
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Re: The Creation Completed

Noey
Let me throw my first question out there for the week.

If we believe in a literal 6 day creation as stated in Genesis, and it says the sun, moon & some stars were created on the 4th day, and we know the 24 hour day is based on the earth rotating around its axis,
how long were the first three days?
Noey
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Re: The Creation Completed

Lovelyladybird2000
I am sure they were 24 hr periods aswell
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Re: The Creation Completed

calderman
In reply to this post by Noey
Good question, same as light before the sun and the moon was created there must have been a period of all light on the earth.
But God is a designer and an architect, and these things would have been planned by The Godhead before the forming of the world.
God knows what humans,animals, and vegetation needs for survival, and the 24 hours cycle of light and darkness deems this as the best time period, therefore the first three days before the sun and moon would have been within that 24 hours slot.
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Re: The Creation Completed

Noey
So would you say that 24 hour periods existed independent of our sun and moon?  While I understand that one can accept that context by faith, it doesn't categorically confirm a literal 6 day creation, it's open to a lot of critics out there.

I fully agree that God as designer and architect had it all planned so my preferred context is that God created the sun moon & stars and time (all aspects) when He spoke light into existence. On the 4th day He "revealed" the light of the sun and moon. By applying this context, we can hold to a literal 6 day creation while at the same time agreeing with the statements in Genesis.

Noey
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Re: The Creation Completed

Lovelyladybird2000
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Re: The Creation Completed

calderman
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By faith we as Christians believed in 7 literal days of creation (7th day was created also for a reason).
The sun, moon was created to control light and time, but does God really needed the sun and moon in order to have light and control time? No.
We are told in Revelation 21 that there will be no sun or moon in the New earth, and that God will illuminate the earth also there will be no night there, would that mean that we would not sleep? No.
God is God, The one who spoke and everything came into existence apart from man.
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Re: The Creation Completed

Noey
calderman wrote
By faith we as Christians believed in 7 literal days of creation (7th day was created also for a reason).
The sun, moon was created to control light and time, but does God really needed the sun and moon in order to have light and control time? No.
We are told in Revelation 21 that there will be no sun or moon in the New earth, and that God will illuminate the earth also there will be no night there, would that mean that we would not sleep? No.
God is God, The one who spoke and everything came into existence apart from man.
Let me respond line by line

All of God's creation was done in the first 6 days, the 7th, God rested, blessed and sanctified, no creation was done on that day but I get what you're trying to say.

Generally agree with your next statement especially the fact that God didn't need these things, but we do, so the fact that Genesis tells us that God prepared the earth (that was without form or void) in the first 3 days and then populated it on the next three days (vegetation, animals, humans) shows that God did things in a specific order to suit His ultimate creation. Could God have created man on the first day? or did He need to have land/vegetation/trees etc in place first? I would suggest that He couldn't, at least not in the form we are now.

Rev 21:23 tells us The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it,[j] for the glory[k] of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light.  The NKJV gives a different take on how you read the verse, rather than there would be no sun and moon in the new earth, it mentions specifically the city and the fact that it had no need of the sun or moon for light. This is vastly different as there is no reference to the new earth itself, just the city, so it can be interpreted as the city had no need of light because God is there but the rest of the new earth may operate with a sun and moon. Secondly, Isa 66:23 tells us And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. "  This suggests the cycle of the moon still exists on the new earth and if it was always light, how would you measure the Sabbath each week?

We were made in God's image and we have a very very limited ability to create things, while we can't just speak things into existence, we can certainly plan, develop, build, rebuild things to make them better, think of flight or cars or computers, this God given creative ability gives us an insight of how God prepared for creation.
Noey
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Re: The Creation Completed

Noey
The Creation Completed
 
By Stephen Terry
 
 
Commentary on the January 19, 2013 Sabbath School Lesson
 
 
“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand.  Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone—while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?” Job 38:4-7, NIV
 
Jews, Seventh-day Adventists, Seventh-day Baptists, Seventh-day Churches of God and several others find a special sacredness in setting apart the seventh day, commonly called Saturday, for worship and reflection. One of the reasons for doing so is found in Exodus, where we are reminded to ““Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work,  but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.” Exodus 20:8-11, NIV
 
In this passage, this seventh-day worship is linked to the concept of a six-day creation followed by a seventh-day Sabbath. Therefore it would seem that one could not separate the idea of Sabbath observance from a literal understanding of the Genesis creation account. However, Deuteronomy gives an entirely different reason for observing the Sabbath. ““Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the Lord your God has commanded you. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns, so that your male and female servants may rest, as you do. Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.” Deuteronomy 5:12-15, NIV
 
So which account is correct? Perhaps both are. Perhaps neither is. Perhaps there are far deeper reasons for a seven day rest cycle that are not even addressed in the Bible. A Google search for the word “circaseptan” will reveal over eleven thousand entries addressing the idea that mankind and nature have some circadian style biological rhythms that operate on seven day cycles. This may shed light on an age old question of where the weekly cycle comes from.
 
Some have pointed out that while a year is roughly based on the Earth’s transit around the sun, the month likewise is based on the moon’s orbit around the earth, and the day is based on the Earth’s rotation, the week is based on no discernible celestial mechanics. They reason therefore that the only basis for a weekly cycle is the creation account in Genesis. But perhaps it is only an assumption to believe that such a cycle must be based on the movement of planetary bodies. What if the cycle is hard-wired into us? What if the circaseptan cycle is something our biology demands as opposed to a discretionary recognition of the creative acts of deity? At the very least, this might free us from a too literal interpretation of the Genesis creation account while still acknowledging the importance of a seven-day cycle of work and rest.
 
This might also deliver one from a too literal definition of Sabbath observance as well. Few today take the extreme views that require that lights be turned on before Sabbath or they must remain on, or if one wanted to carry a handkerchief on the Sabbath it must be pinned to one’s garments so it could be considered a part of one’s clothing as opposed to an extra “burden” which was prohibited. However, when one sees the Sabbath as fiat to be understood and observed as opposed to simple recognition of what is, one might seek to define every aspect of that commandment in order not to fail in observance. But if the Sabbath is simply a part of what we are biologically, then those biological rhythms will instruct us regarding the boundaries of what we should or should not do. Perhaps this is what Paul meant when he wrote “…when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.” Romans 2:14-15, NIV Maybe the Sabbath is written on our hearts in the form of these septacircan rhythms.
When I look at Genesis and Creation, I see music and poetry. Each day is like the stanza of a song with a repeated chorus of “And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the (first through sixth) day.” Like the song “The Twelve Days of Christmas,” each stanza builds upon what has gone before. Throughout the stanzas of creation we move from simple to complex. But within this overall theme we have a parallel poetic development that appears to link the creation of the first day with the luminaries of the fourth, the sea and sky of the second day with the fish and birds of the fifth, and the dry land of the third day with the vegetation and animals of the sixth. The overall theme ascends like a simple line while the interior theme is more like a spiral staircase. Both of these ascend to the pinnacle of creation—man.
 
Everything is made for man. Man is made in God’s image. Man is given dominion over everything. Even the Sabbath was made for man when God set it apart. Jesus affirmed this when He said, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.” Mark 2:27, NIV Perhaps rather than being a burden of obedience to be born while watching the clock and counting the moments until one is free of that burden at sunset, the Sabbath was instead intended to be a gift to enable man to address the needs of his circaseptan rhythms in a context he could understand.
 
What a dramatic contrast the Genesis account must have presented to the people compared to the generations of slavery they had endured in Egypt. As slaves, they had little value beyond the labor they could perform, but Genesis revealed that they were created to rule the Earth and everything on it. The Sabbath of Genesis also revealed that all should be treated equally. They had experienced inequality in Egypt but the Sabbath reminder in Deuteronomy, chapter five, reminds them not to treat others the way they were treated. Foreigners, servants and livestock were to enjoy the rest of the Sabbath, too.
 
Some who take a more literal approach to Genesis and the Sabbath would have us believe that God is sitting in heaven with nothing better to do than to watch the edges of the Sabbath and if He finds transgressions, He takes his sharpened pencil and writes their names down on a heavenly “naughty or nice” list. His purpose for doing so is to build up a list of reasons to exclude the “naughty” ones from heaven. Sadly some of these who watch the edges of the Sabbath so closely are also those who think nothing of waiting at someone’s door until sunset in order to not miss a moment of being able to transact business. This perverts the meaning of the Sabbath. It was made for man to be a blessing and not a burden. Perhaps this was why Jesus freely blessed and healed on the Sabbath. The church leaders took a dim view of all the work He was doing on that day, but as “Lord of the Sabbath,” (Matthew 12:8) He knew its true purpose.
 
Unfortunately, few of the gifts that God has given to man have not been used to oppress and control either man or nature. This is true of the dominion man was given over the Earth and the same is true of the Sabbath. Many of us know how unpleasant this can be. We may have known or even lived with someone who is always pointing out our flaws to us, not with a desire to help us, but in order to control us through guilt. A too literal understanding of the Genesis creation account beyond its poetic affirmation of man’s harmony with the cosmos can be construed by literalists as a tool for judgment and control as well. When we turn it to such dark purposes, it is hard to picture the angels singing for joy to the beautiful music of Creation. Perhaps this is why God’s first words in the Bible were “Let there be light.”
Noey
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Re: The Creation Completed

Noey
In reply to this post by Lovelyladybird2000
Nice, nice, just right for a ten minute spot on Sabbath.
Noey
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Re: The Creation Completed

calderman
In reply to this post by Noey
God is God, The one who spoke and everything came into existence apart from man.

Let me make clear the above statement, every thing came into existence with the spoken word of
God apart from man, man was personally formed, which underline the love God place upon mankind.
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Re: The Creation Completed

Noey
How do we mesh the verses of Genesis chapter 1 with the following:


Genesis 2:19-20

New King James Version (NKJV)


19 Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name.  

This text seems to suggest that animals were formed out of the ground, just like Adam.
Noey
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Re: The Creation Completed

Noey
Lots of wonderful questions this week, so here's another.

When God asked Adam to name the animals, there's a suggestion that God was indirectly showing Adam about a lack of suitable partners. Do you think Adam wanted a "suitable partner?" Does an only child want a sibling?
Noey
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Re: The Creation Completed

Noey
Let me ask another question about the literal days. In the Bible, everyone assumes a 7 day cycle with the 7th day being the day of rest. There are many references to working 6 days and resting for 1 which was to benefit man. Why would anyone think that the days of creation were any different? If it was a thousand year period, would we then be working non-stop for 6000 years and then rest for a thousand?
Noey
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Re: The Creation Completed

Noey
Contemporary Comments

"The Creation Completed" January 19, 2013

Genesis 1; Psalm 8:3; Romans 8:19-22; Leviticus 11:14-22; Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:28

Hanging out has replaced dating. Gone are the days of a guy asking a girl, one-on-one, out for a dinner and a movie. Now its brief text messages like, "Hey, I'm at Frank's Bar. Want to meet up for a drink or whatever?" Does he pick her up? Do they spend time alone getting to know each other? Nope and nope again. It's often, "I'm with a bunch of my college friends just hanging around."

"The word 'date' should almost be stricken from the dictionary," Ms. Silver [social media and blog manager] said. "Dating culture has evolved to a cycle of text messages, each one requiring the code-breaking skills of a cold war spy to interpret. It's one step below a date, and one step above a high-five," she added. ... Raised in the age of so-called "hookup culture," millennials - who are reaching an age where they are starting to think about settling down - are subverting the rules of courtship.

Instead of dinner-and-a-movie, which seems as obsolete as a rotary phone, they rendezvous over phone texts, Facebook posts, instant messages and other "non-dates" that are leaving a generation confused about how to land a boyfriend or girlfriend. "The new date is 'hanging out,' " said Denise Hewett, 24, an associate television producer in Manhattan, who is currently developing a show about this frustrating new romantic landscape. As one male friend recently told her: "I don't like to take girls out. I like to have them join in on what I'm doing - going to an event, a concert."1

Obviously not all millennials fit this stereotype. But it makes you wonder how this mindset impacts religion and the worship of God. This week's Sabbath school lesson discusses the finished Creation week ending with the seventh-day Sabbath. Why did the Lord create the Sabbath? Did God have a need or did people have a greater need? What is the purpose of this 24-hour break in the weekly cycle? Is it meant for God to "join in on what I'm doing" or something more?

The Bible shows us that people have a need for communion with their Creator. When the Creation week was completed, God initiated a time for connecting with human beings. The Lord rested from the work of making our world and spent time developing a relationship with Adam and Eve. It was more than "hanging out" or "hooking up." The time was deep, intentional, personal, and intimate. Perhaps Sabbath has lost its richer meaning because it has become just another day of the week in which to hang around.
Noey
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Re: The Creation Completed

calderman
In reply to this post by Noey
The problem is that many of the other denominations have adapted this kind of thinking, they believed in creation but the time scale is the questionable.
I just want to go back to the creation week whereby even our church speaks of 6 days of creation, and kind of forgets about the 7th with completes the creation week, creation would not have been completed without the 7th day, and it's vital important that we remember about this. Adam spend his first day with God and the host of angels giving thanks for all they could see, smell or hear, and God bless and sanctify this special day of remembrance.
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Re: The Creation Completed

Noey
I do agree with you that a lot of us has missed the essence of the creation week which was the Sabbath, when God completed His creation, the "cream on the top of the cake" was Him spending time with His creation and establishing "The Special Relationship" with mankind. Sometimes, we fall into the trap that the Jews fell into regarding the Sabbath and think more about rules around it rather the centrepiece - God Himself.

One last question for this week's study, you said:

calderman wrote
The problem is that many of the other denominations have adapted this kind of thinking, they believed in creation but the time scale is the questionable.
God gave us the ability to observe and investigate, allowing us to establish "fact" and identify errors, why did He then create this world with the "appearance" of great age if it wasn't so?
Noey